Hass @ The Baked Potato?

[S.P]

hey steve!

thanks for visiting again and giving your opinion...i hate it when these kind of arguments happen on HOD!

hope you enjoyed Spain (im from there)

Cool stuff!

I wish Michael all the best and a quick recovery!

<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ July 18, 2005 08:25 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font></font>

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 18, 2005 08:32 AM: Message edited by: S.P ]</font>

[cjbdrm]

Okay...I think Paraflam, Groovesmitty, SDK, and Flarobstix are the same person....

[erskoman]

Steve Hass wrote: "I'm going to grab a baguette sandwich and a glass of Rioja, and chill out ...
Peace you guys!! It's just music."

Hey Steve: it's only Monday, but you win the "Buddha of the Week" Award in my book already!

Excellent to meet you in Paris. Safe travels to you! The Rioja is good in Spain, no?

Pedro

[erskoman]

P.S. Once played "Impressions" with George Garzone, Russ Ferrante and Jimmy Haslip, and Garzone was flipped by how much Russ and Jimmy swung on the tune ... (swang?). Disclosure: I'm a member of the Haslip and Ferrante Fan Club.

Have a great day, everyone.

Peter

[S.P]

Hey Pete

I just read your interview on the Spanish magazine Todo Percussion from when you were still touring with Diana. You mentioned HOD on there too and thats awesome! great interview!

[JoesMechanic]

Hass and Ersko.... doods!! Thanks for your infinite wisdom.

Even though I'm not a world renoun player like yourselves, I have enough "world renoun" player friends that have been nice enough to guide/show me the true working world of music. Both you and Pete exume the wonderful humanity that I've grown accustomed to know of the musical community over my short 40 years. I'm sorry if I offended anyone in my posts (goes to "youz guyz" SDK, Para, and Smitty too)

Group hug... [img]graemlins/boy_hug.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/girl_hug.gif[/img]

But I've grown thin skin over the years for the trash talking. The internet seems full of it. I say leave that to the kiddie drum forums. I'm mostly a "reactionary" when it comes to stuff like this. I usually don't strike unless provoked. I always felt HOD and the "working" drumming community was a cut above all that, which is why I do tell my "world renoun" drumming friends or any great drummer to check out HOD every chance I get. And I don't want to scare them off with diatribe like this.

Hey Pocketplayer?? Where'd you get those pics of me?? [img]wink.gif[/img]

SDK, Flarob, and Smitty.... I understand completely what you guys are "trying to say". I may not totally agree with your thoughts regarding Jazz, Jazz music, traditional Jazz, reading, fusion "labeled" players playing trad jazz and the lot. That's fine, we can choose to agree to disagree.

But I really feel you need to "edit" some of the offensive things out. Like I said, the line I quoted of yours wasn't nescessary to make your point. And certainly, "What I said about those two brilliant musicians is nothing they themselves would not say". Talking for them isn't too cool either.

Your own feelings or opinions of someones playing is fine, but to go below the belt by saying "they aren't creative Jazz musicians"?? I dunno?? Because like I said..... if I told Jimmy that line verbatim that you wrote, or if I told Vinnie that line SDK once posted about Vince being "an insult to Jazz" (which I did), I don't think he'd be too pleased with it. ESPECIALLY if you guys were tight.

Remember this..... the internet is not as "anonymous" as most think it is. Especially in this community. Anyone worth their salt knows their "name" is everything.

Case in point... if anyone knows Roger Burn and what he was caught saying about someone else one time, and the bad vibes it sent thru the musical community like wild fire....... It really hurt his career there for a while. I've known Roger for some 20+ years now, and know 1st hand what he went thru. Not good and not cool. He learned his lesson the hard way.

So no hard feelings guys. I'm really glad you turned me onto Hass, he's an amazing player and can't wait to see him live. And because of Pete, drummings face has been changed over the years. Thanks to both of you guys.

I hope I get the chance to hang with you guys eventually (Ersko and Steve). I really do hope you can make the B.P. gig. I've really enjoyed the vid clips I've seen of your playing. Pete and Steve... please keep us posted of your gigs here in L.A. I'm sure there are HOD bretheren that want to come see you guys.

ps.... Steve. Aren't those "baggette" sandwiches the bomb!! Don't know why they haven't caught on here in the U.S.??

pss.... Typo on the "Randy" thing. Was "in the moment" of the post. Bless Michael & Alan. Hope they get thru this tough time. Our hopes and prayers are with them.

[got_a_matchgrip]

WORD.

Some "jazz folks" are of what was, AWA what hass stemmed out of, trad swg & bop, also branching from or linearly out of the formidable big band genre...including, but not limited to, Coltrane, Bird, Thelonius, Tyner, Miles, Herbie, etc etc. Coltrane is just as viable today as he was then; ie, his work can still hang w, AWA still a model FOR, the best of 'em.

I thought in my post i made relatively clear that i was saying AH & FG were not strictly "jazz" players, as those indiv's would've called them, but who could still nail the changes.

I wasn't my intention to then compare AH w FG in that way, as they are both def fusion players w def diff's between each other, one of which is FG being more "rock fusion" oriented; ie, less the trad / swg element & more the fusion, even moreso than perhaps AH, who's fluid legato style, unlike FG's which is largely staccato [& those glorious arpeggiated sweeps! ;-)], AWA the more choice of notes by AH, lends itself to a more idiomatically "jazzy" approach, sounding more hornlike & perhaps "violinish"...this was done not by me in succession to my/said post.

Along the lines of Zach awa Go's:
Perhaps it's just me, but I would never flippantly quip that someone such as Chick, Jarrett, or Haslip or Russ FTM, weren't "creative [jazz OR otherwise] musos;" as that's a bit vague & seemingly insultive; & somehow in my heart of hearts, I don't think Elvin would've either. And obv, Hass & Ersk don't look at it that way either. It may be "true," & I may know what I'm talking about, but if the desire is to educate someone who's "not quite yet informed or learned," & not to boost my own ego, then perhaps a better AWA more specific way to put it would be in order.

And just because someone knows another for 30 yrs, or has played w them X-# of times doesn't seem to me to automatically qualify them to make those kinds of appeared "judgements," even if made as a statement of the "facts." Joe's makes a good point in ref to this.

I had a long diartibe that i posted because of my gut reactive, but also withdrew via edit, because i didn't feel it would "solve" anything.

Those posts did come off as arrogant, condescending, AWA insulting; I'm obv not the only one here who received it in this way, & i for one am not going to mince words, as the orig poster didn't either, about it. And then to further fuel the fires with more seeming condescension. The key words that hit you in the face were NOT, CREATIVE, & [jazz] MUSICIANS; awa "pet peeve of mine"...which for myself, are erroneus statements such as those. "Not nice," as mum used to say, nor tactfully well-put, whether opinionatedly or factually "true" or not.

Similar stigma, it would seem: I have a fellow muso AWA friend, a gtrst whom i'v known AWA played w on & off for 23 yrs now, who is this same way. God bless him, I love the guy, but he comes off extremely intolerant of anything but what he, AWA many others, deem THE, or the contempo stemming out of, definitive jazz idiom: trad / swg / bop; 50s - thru 60s, into early 70s; AWA the contemporary stemming from. Anything else is strictly "beneath" his/this mantra. And he will play with almost no one, & vice-versa, obv, because of his absolute militant, elitist, AWA "biased" attitude, which also extends beyond the realm of music or jazz. Sometimes he is intolerable, a "bear" to be around, play w, or talk to. He is often quite the self-imposed, miserable, isolated wretch. And he blames everyone else [society, stupid people, the music biz, etc] for his own self-imposed isolation AWA frustration as a result. I had to burn him a copy of OTV/SYI to quiet him about prog rock fusion! ;-p

Now, I'm not comparing nor saying this is the case with anyone else either way; but the implication was there, "hovering about" like a dark cloud in the distance. I realize an apology of sorts was made...followed by several defenses of same initial statement ;-)...not apologizing for the statement itself, but rather the way in which it was presented. Allright. No prob.

I think a lot of folks come to this realzation because they have come to the understanding that jazz is an extremely learn-ed, lived, AWA further intuitive artform that tends to exceed the boundaries of many other genres [including itself sometimes!], which i would, in all essence, agree to as well. But contempo jazz-[AWA latin, etc]-fusion is also a huge part of the ongoing evolution of the overall grand picture of "jazz" as we [& Miles ;-)] know & would put it, producing many formidable players who can handle many or various diff styles & genres within this, some of the most formidable players out there. To flippantly dismiss this is erroneus AWA a "pet-peeve" to many others. I liken Ersk, AWA Tain, BStew, JHam, Ari, Ballard, Baron, Blade, AWA then also Haddad, VC, Weck, Novak, Dennis, Covington, Husband, Kennedy, Hass, & Omar into this category.

Perhaps some of these ARE under the guise of having been raised "American pocket fusion" players...so what. Point? They should be JUST AS PROUD & confident as any other genre, ethnic, or style such as purist authentic swing or latin, mid-east, etc. FUSO PLAYERS STAND UP & BE COUNTED. YOU KICK AXE - Fusion has evolutionarily become an incredibly unique style all its own, & it also contains some of the most monstrous, ferocious players on the globe!!

Yes, Vince & Dave aren't strictly simply "trad or bop jazz" players, but rather ferocious amalgamations of both AWA more. Husb, Hass & Michaud AW. To many, one or any of these may have more of the "elemental jazz" idiom present in their playg approach. Allright, again. No prob AW.

Somehow, for ex, i don't think Camilo hires Weck only to think in the back of his mind that DW's "latin" is somehow actually sub-par; & i don't think MC's fan base buys his albums only to say to themselves that Camilo awa DW's latin is not ethnic-purist, or "sucks"...even if it's not exaclty "purist ethnic." I think there's a bias by some of the purists against it, because it sounds to them as if the "gringos" are trying to emulate their art form...which is TRUE! They ARE. That's a COMPLIMENT, NOT an insult to those cats!! Gumby Ortiz walked away from playing w Weck at a clinic & said specif to me [about Dave], "That boy's one BAAAAD mofro!!!"

But Even DW admitted in clinic he "crossed over" the clave on many of his earlier solo discs, & "what can i say, I'm a gringo, still learning!"...YES, Some of we gringos & prog n fuso-rockers may have a ways to go, i must admit! I'm not too big to fess up!! /;-p But then i also would'nt exactly say the intro to DW's tune Synergy sucks as latin, even if "Am Pock Fuso Player" based!

But then also, this fact doesn't autom exclude the cats that have many a genre's purist or ethnic authenticity steeped within their great playg, either, IMHO.

Some are still "striving" to feel it right," amigos! /;-) It's a Work in Progess to a Joint, Common, Ultimate Goal...

Musical Objectivity...Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder...even at whatever point they are on the Learning Curve... /;-)

-------------

Thx Hass [awa Ersk] for once again gracing this board like so many others.

BIG joint prayers out to MB [awa AP & his father].

We hope Michael can grace us w his presence & his wonderful contribution to the world of MUSIC, healthily, for many, many years to come.

And thank all these for what they already have... /:-D
[img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img] [img]cool.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rose.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sun.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rainbow.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 19, 2005 12:35 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

[got_a_matchgrip]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ July 18, 2005 04:36 PM: Message edited by: got_a_match_grip? ]</font>

[Paraflam]

Another potentially disasterous thread turns happy. Gotta love it here. I can assure you, I have nothing to do with Rob, or Groove, or the expelled member SDK. Rob and I have met at a Janis Siegel/Alan Pasqua Trio show at Birdland over the xmas holiday. So if we're the same person, it's news to me.
Joe's, great answer, and I dig Groove's points at times as I do yours. As Hass said, peace. We're all here for the drums.
Also great to see Peter Erskine in here. A forum full of drumming monsters.

[S.P]

AMAZING post there GAMG!! Man you rock!

I love this place!